don t go to law school reddit

and why most people should avoid going to law school without a full-ride. Whether it's long-standing baggage, happy thoughts, or recent trauma, posting it here may provide some relief. you have to be good at math to succeed in programming, correct? We'll listen, and if you want, we'll talk. An increasingly likely possibility in our modern world. This semester I've become bulimic. By verbal skills I mostly mean writing and reading skills, not "can argue really well". I guess the point being that you go to law school because you want to be a lawyer, and that high salaries aren't guaranteed in law. My real advice is that you should finish it and look for a job in whatever department you want after. In fact, hiring managers are interested in people with legal backgrounds—after all, law school teaches you critical thinking, tactical problem solving, and sheer determination. Stress stresses you out. The main purpose of this article is to help you answer the latter part. I would absolutely KILL to have only 200k in debt. Press J to jump to the feed. Are there other career fields that are geared towards verbal skills where a person stands to make a similar salary? Unless you are one of the few whose parents set up a tuition fund for BOTH your undergrad AND your grad school, that means you are going to be taking loans. You should be able to have a good answer to that. The Law School at Stanford University is another top-ranked law school. Go if you really want to be a lawyer. Don't Go To Law School (Unless)A Law Professor's Inside Guide to Maximizing Opportunity and Minimizing Risk.Paul Campos Paul Campos in front of Wolf Law. We aim to keep this a safe space. It doesn't … $100k debt coming out of law school is conservative, $200k+ is more realistic, and any amount will be accruing interest at a balmy 7%, (5) From there you are faced with the enviable choice of call it $3k a month in loan payments vs rolling the dice by trusting Congress to not gut income based repayment and digging in for the crippling tax bill, (6) Oh, turns out you had to move to an expensive city for the pleasure of taking that job? Am I wrong here? In fact, it seems to me like one of very few non-STEM or business careers that often pays a 6 figure salary. And this of course is entirely subjective. People who go to law school because they "can argue really well" have been led astray at some point. Going to law school is expensive. I’m very glad I didn’t. It is not as easy as it seems. In sum, tons of people going to law school shouldn’t from a fiscally conservative standpoint, but it doesn’t matter because humans make tons of terrible decisions every day. Actually, I've found that it uses a lot of the same skills as taking the LSAT: logic, language, etc. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. You should not go to law school unless you are pretty sure you want to be a lawyer. In a very different way than being a lawyer. U.S. News & World Report looked into just how expensive and found that the average student at a private law school spent an average of $40,095 annually in the 2018-2019 academic year. I meant reading and writing skills by verbal skills, not people skills lol, Law : Verbal skills :: Dentistry : Bipedal locomotion. As far as what I did after law school: guess what? Doubly so if you’re attending a bad school with no scholarship. I also love my job and am so glad I stuck with it because you can do a lot with a JD. Sure, there is litigation and trial work, but that doesn't make up the lion's share of legal work, and even then some would argue that your ability to draft decent briefs or filings and do good research is more important in support of those aspects. But don’t lose heart! If I had people skills at all, I'd have looked into it more. at the very least you can't be below average. The number of pure programming jobs is declining, though, and the ones that remain are getting more competitive. Many applicants take a commercial law school preparation course (they’re pricey, but you can ask providers about discounts at law school … And I'm talking about median income of the career field here, not like top 10%. I realize all of the above are first world problems (and some may be exaggerated as applied to certain people and circumstances) but they are nonetheless actual problems with the well trodden path. Don't go to law school. Unless you are one of the few whose parents set up a tuition fund for both your undergrad and your grad school, that means you are going to be taking loans. That’s 3 years of tuition, assorted fees, books and living expenses. That's three years of tuition, assorted fees, books and living expenses. Yeah idk why this question is so controversial or why the points I’m bringing up are so unreasonable to get downvoted so much. This cost does not include rent, food, transportation, and … Ask questions, seek advice, post outlines, etc. More so, it’s important to work hard and then you’ll get the money, but it definitely won’t be handed to you. Are you in your second year? My depression and anxiety, which I worked for years to overcome, are back. Being skilled in communication is essential in almost 85% of jobs out there, and it isn't that much more important to the practice of law. There's also the possibility that there isn't a career path where median income is 6 figures for the humanities oriented among us. You’re only looking at 160k of crushing debt. Anyways. By Elie Mystal. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I know for a fact that with my skill set (reading, writing, etc) and in the location I live I couldn’t get a higher paying job elsewhere. Whatever you choose, don’t be deterred by job descriptions that don’t quite match your background. If you don’t hit the jackpot, your most likely outcome is a $20 to $30 hourly wage. Go to law school with the intent to insert yourself into a bustling legal community and watch the magic happen. Don’t just go to law school to learn from legal textbooks. Most people hate being lawyers. By way of background, I graduated from Emory Law School squarely in the middle of my class. I've heard that is the hardest year so maybe that's why I'm so miserable. Many, many law school graduates attend non-T14 schools and go on to have successful law careers. Tl;dr - if you do something else with your life you can very easily take home more money (despite grossing significantly less), be less geographically limited and not subject yourself to the rat race. I've often heard some variation of "don't go to law school for the money", either from lawyers themselves or in articles about law school. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It's also a shot at not getting a job and having 200k in debt before falling back on one of those "other" humanities jobs. A mutually supportive community where deeply emotional things you can't tell people you know can be told. I just don't think you should go to law school.Follow my solo vanlife adventures: https://www.instagram.com/vacayvans/ Your career trajectory and financial stability will primarily be shaped by three factors: your law school’s ranking, your ranking in law school, and your total debt. This is NOT a forum for legal advice. "But wait, DeadBela! U.S. News asked some law school grads who earned their J.D. People saying something like “business” career is so general and vague, it’s not even a job. 209. share. I imagine that being in the pandemic state in even worse. And maybe I'd have saved up buckets of money from some gap years in this high-paying, in-demand field, instead of needing so many student loans to go to law school. I wish I'd known how good my humanities skills would make me at learning programming languages when I was in undergrad. Law school was stressful enough but now it is fully online with zero support. Please, for the love of all things that are good, do NOT go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer (or you won’t be taking out a single loan for it). Fear of the future is normal. I would hope most lawyers, particularly those at firms, would agree that good reasons to go to law school pretty much start and end with "I want to be a lawyer". An argumentative child, I heard more than once that I should consider law school; a fixation with Star Trek’s Dr. Crusher had me briefly convinced that medical school lay in my future. There are two important flaws in this logic. I almost quit around this time in my second year. degrees within the past dozen years whether, if they could go back in time to the moment when they decided to attend law school… For current and former Law School Redditors. I guess the point being that you go to law school because you want to be a lawyer, and that high salaries aren't guaranteed in law. I think the stress of the pandemic on top of law school is just really hard to handle. I finished law school too and was a total nightmare for me. Law school isn't a solution to your fear of the career abyss. Yeah, I am a 2L. (And even then, with caution). I saw a counselor and they put me on antidepressants. But, LSAT success requires serious preparation and at least three months of intensive preparation. (1) The two places with the overwhelmingly largest number of jobs paying call it $150k starting are NY and CA and you end up with something approaching a 50% marginal tax rate depending on your personal circumstances, (2) You don't just walk into that median paying job, to have some certainty you can be able to get in the door most people need the name recognition of a Top [whatever number is the current buzz] school, effectively all of which have annual costs of attending over ~$70k, (3) Of everyone who enters law school, 49% end up below median and dozens of students go to those schools every year and end up un/underemployed having payed the same amount, (4) Don't have family funding or a full ride? Law school, as exciting and thrilling as it may sound, is all about fit and compatibility. Firstly, not everyone can be in the top 10 or 20 percent of the class. Have fun either shelling out $2500+ to live alone, being a "successful" white collar professional sharing a 4 bed/1 bath apartment with 3 others or alternatively, commuting an hour to work, (7) No big deal, you've solved all of the above - you are now working in a job that is a horrifically bad fit for most people that sign up for it, (8) If you are the one that is built to last at a firm for the long haul due to a very rare combination of unlimited patience, business generating charisma and interest in a practice group that happens to be growing at the time you would make partner you are almost certainly not perusing Reddit fishing for threads to justify your path. But what if you got a half scholarship at one of those top schools. a law degree is versatile, you can make a lot of money as a lawyer, you can enact social change as a lawyer, etc.) I use to see a therapist and I've been thinking about looking into some kind of tele-therapist. I think by “don’t do it for the money” people mean don’t expect the perfect job with great pay if you’re not in the top of your class or at a top school. The practice of law is hard. I wish I could go back in time and tell myself to pursue literally any other degree. (Just google JD Underground.) The last two years have been the worst of my life. According to U.S. News & World report's 2017 law school rankings, the average cost of tuition and fees among the top 10 law schools is $60,293 per year. I speak from experience. and start actively working to convince yourself that you are special and capable of finding happiness in a sea of other [generally intelligent and successful] people who failed to do so you owe it to yourself and your family to take a really close look at the path before you get too far down it. You'd make bank in something like medical equipment sales. It is not worth it. A fictitious dialog between a law school dean and a law school graduate. If you are considering law school, don't do it. (I am a lawyer but know many JDs that aren’t). In truth, he should’ve just named the book “Don’t Go To Law School” and left off the “(Unless)” portion because that is how the book reads. There might be institutional or ABA-imposed barriers that I’m unaware of. I found support and friends who really understood. Once you enter the land of "I guess...what else am i going to do?" Stanford Law School. You’re not wrong about how difficult it is and about how the schools often make it worse. I have a mental breakdown at least four times a month. Don't go to law school just because you think you should. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Law Schools no longer care if you have a lower score on the … This school doesn't care at all about the well-being of its students. I can't take it. Here's a test- if someone asks you "why do you want to go to law school?" Dude, overall verbal intelligence (and not merely "arguing well") is ridiculously important in the law- the ability to read, write and to think critically about ideas and arguments, as well as remembering the correct ideas and arguments at the right moment, is central to what lawyers do. He eviscerates virtually every reason advanced for going to law school (e.g. Aug 6, 2015 at 6:55 PM Shares 150. Thank you, I appreciate it. I thought there was gold at the end of the rainbow, but ended up with a flaming pile of debt and despair. Your analogy should be more like Law : Verbal intelligence :: Dentistry : Spatial Intelligence. If you've got above average verbal skills and emotional intelligence, sales would be a better chance of a 6 figure income than law. It’s a contentious, adversarial process, and your … I promise that you don’t have to be the top of your class if class competition is adding stress to your life. The degree is useful for other things, and the thought of staying in the legal profession makes me want to cry. I am an economist now . I’m sorry you’re feeling this way and I sincerely hope you feel better, and figure out what is going to work for you. And don’t forget there is a registration fee. It was super helpful and I didn’t wean off until I was settled in my first job. The last two years have been the worst of my life. Hear me out on this. And very little actual science seems to be required. Don’t go to law school unless you want to be a lawyer. And if you don’t know what “be a lawyer” really means, you should … This semester I've become bulimic. I mean this in terms of which law school you should choose to attend (more on this later), as well as whether you should even attend law school at all. I wish you the best! Maybe his publisher had him include that. I describe the detriments of getting a J.D. Don't miss: 6 questions to ask yourself if you think you want to go to law school; The 10 states most impacted by student debt; The 10 most educated … I disagree that this is the best chance at making 6-figures for someone with a humanities skill set, because I believe computer programming is. The average tuition at private law school was $49,312 in 2019, compared to an average of $28,186 at a public school. ** The law school application fee for this school is $100 plus the OLSAS Application service fee of $200 *** Average is the Median CGPA (E) refers to the English LL.B program offered at the University of Ottawa (F) refers to the French LL.B program offered at the University of Ottawa. If you go to an average law school and don't get any tuition help or scholarships, you are going to spend ~$150,000 all-in, at least. But, no joke. Many students go to lower-ranked law schools with the idea that they will be in the top 10 or 20 percent of the class. I also want to do my part in ending this destructive ideology that grad school is always necessary. It's acting like everything is fine and normal in the world and we aren't going through a fucking global pandemic. I can't take it. If you go to an average law school and don’t get any tuition help or scholarships, you are going to spend ~$150,000 all-in, at least (that is the MINIMUM). Other than that, go wild. You’ve done this for 16 years (1 st grade through college) and you still don’t know exactly what you want to do when you grow up. The notorious Thomas M. Cooley Law School does the former, and no one who knows anything about law school will go there, but they charge $54,000 per year right now. People should only be lawyers if they want to be lawyers, the money isn't that good and requires like a decade (optimistically) of time and financial investment to even get back to a net worth of $0. School rankings matter, because they matter to employers. I've often heard some variation of "don't go to law school for the money", either from lawyers themselves or in articles about law school. I mean the point about bimodal salaries skewing the mean is well taken, I didn’t know that. Don’t go to law school if you’re going to accumulate mountains of debt or are going to a bad school. Oh, well. The advantage of the network / brand / reputation of top tier law school is useful in getting you a job in the AmLaw 100. Law school is incredibly difficult and stressful. My depression and anxiety, which I worked for years to overcome, are back. Yeah, I'm looking into jobs that are not in the legal field. This school doesn't care at all about the well-being of its students. But I’m not a lawyer, I’m not in law school, was it really that dumb of me to base my impression on lawyer salaries on the median? Quinn Emanuel Partner Warns: ‘Don’t Go To Law School’ Even if law school works out for you, this partner reminds you that it doesn't. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. That's a science!" I can't do this. The data is misleading and on top of that people overreact to the salary numbers and underestimate their own opportunity costs. Honestly, lawtwitter and finding people who truly understood and could give good advice was soooo helpful for me. Only Your Highest LSAT Score Matters. This thread is pretty weird. If I'd majored in computer science, I'd be eligible to sit the patent bar (because my university was ABET-accredited). 5. "A college graduate should not go to law school only because he or she is able to get admitted into law school and does not know what he or she wants to … My counterpoint is, at least for a student who has above average "humanities" skills but is average to below average in math and science, it seems to be best chance at a high-paying career. The Pecking Order. Have you been meaning to read Don’t Go To Law School (Unless) by Professor Paul Campos (affiliate link), but prefer consuming your information via infographic? It's acting like everything is fine and normal in the world and we aren't going through a fucking global pandemic. Force yourself to try something new — even if it isn’t natural. You can go more in depth by majoring in computer science, but you'll need to learn at least calculus, if not differential equations, linear algebra and possibly analysis. OP is getting downvoted to oblivion and is raising some valid points.

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